Adult ADD As A Form of Madness

Ah, that post nicely summarized my own feelings this morning. It IS frustrating. It’s even worse when, even armed with the knowledge, you doubt and second guess the reason for certain behaviors. “What if that isn’t because of ADD?” you ask yourself.

It’s the road to madness.

Seriously Jeff, STFU and get out of my brain.

Quit summarizing my life in blog posts.

Quit hitting the nail on the head right down to watching and lamenting the trials of our undiagnosed ADHD parents. (In my case I’m pretty sure it’s TWO parents.)

Just knock it off. Now I’m gonna be thinking about this all day because it’s so damn true. Ruminating if you will…between episodes of trying to remember to use my handy new calendar…and attempting not to leave the room while the professor is talking, and alternately lamenting and reveling in the non-linear path my life has taken as a direct result of this charming chemical imbalance we call ADHD.

Oh sh*t, late for work, gotta go, you insightful bastard.

Jay & Katy,

I apologize for offering insight into this particular problem. I will try to stop doing that. I will try to reframe my thinking by repeating the mantra “ADD IS A GIFT”; “ADD IS A GIFT”; “ADD IS A GIFT.”

Jeff,

One of the many things about me & my life that puzzled me long before my diagnosis was the fact that despite all the madness I was constantly experiencing I was still somehow able to avoid going totally insane.

Anna

Jeff and everyone,

Regarding “The Gift of ADD” and similar books, and all the upbeat positive-thinking baggage that goes along with their titles and which I know you find so offensive: It seems to me that the biggest thing wrong with that particular book title is a matter of exactly ONE preposition. Instead of calling the book “The Gift *OF* ADD,” the author should have called it “The Gift *WITHIN* ADD.”

It’s painfully obvious to anyone who has had to struggle with this condition even for one day, let alone for a lifetime, that ADD in and of itself is no gift. And yet it’s undeniable that there are very often gifts that go along with it and that accompany it so often they seem to be part of the ADD syndrome, as I believe they are. I have such gifts and my younger sister had them too.

Where the positive-thinking, happy-talk upbeat approach becomes so offensive is that it minimizes the difficulties involved in “unwrapping the gift.” I am just now finishing a letter to an old friend who I am 99.5% sure also has ADD, although he may not be aware of it. He also has significant gifts of intellect and creativity, but unfortunately…other baggage too. I said among other things:

[i]“But that was instinctive, unconscious recognition, and not enough in itself for understanding. It’s the conscious recognition that is all-important, because that makes it possible to begin disentangling the gift from the curse—an extremely difficult process under the best of circumstances. And conscious recognition has only been really possible within the last few years, as the distinct neurology of ADD has become known.”[/i]

Although I had this “gift vs. curse” debate very much in mind when I wrote that passage, I didn’t define either term in the letter. I assume my friend already knows all about both of them from the inside.

Anyway, that’s how I see it– as an extremely difficult, almost impossible process of disentangling, like when you try to separate and wind multiple skeins of yarn that are all tangled up together into a huge Gordian knot.

Some of that yarn is cheap junk, and you only want to separate it from the good stuff so you can throw it away. You can do that with yarn, but unfortunately not with the negative aspects of the ADD syndrome. At the very least, you want to be able to actually USE the good stuff. But first you have to separate it from the junk.

Another metaphor I’ve used is that the gift is imprisoned within the curse like a pearl within an oyster. You want to open up that oyster shell and liberate the pearl of great price.

The very LAST thing you want to hear is somebody telling to “just” open up that oyster shell, when you have tried and failed repeatedly to get it open. And there is always the possibility some individuals may die–all too often by their own hand–without ever getting that pearl out of that oyster.

My sister Jantha was one of these unfortunate ones who could never liberate her pearl, and my most recent blog post was about her tragic death at age 34. It begins with a sonnet I wrote a few weeks after death.

–Linda aka Raksha

Anna,

I don’t think anyone with ADD truly goes insane but…the continual feeling of banging your head against the wall again and again does, well, make you think that you could go insane.

Raksha,

You summarized the issues beautifully. I think the Gordian knot is an apt metaphor to describe the internal jumble of behaviors.

Your post dedicated to your sister is truly touching and moving. I truly hope that the post accomplishes your goal of allowing others who have similar struggles to be able to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I do like that better, the “gift within”. Yes, there’s the danger of frustration, but…it does encompass the possibility of more realistic self-assessment. For me though, it’s more like this…one day, the pearl is right there in my hands, and I’m so excited I run around with it and build altars to it and dedicate poems to it, and think of all the great things I’m gonna do with it and then the next day I wake up and if I even remember I go “oh shit…where’d I put that damn thing, I think I left it around here somewhere…crap…”…rinse, repeat, lol…

It surely is very painful watching family members hurt themselves, struggling with their demons…especially when those demons, either family culture-wise, or brain chemical-wise may be shared. One of my uncles struggled for years with alcohol and drug addiction, due to self-medicating (for severe anxiety at the very least). He committed suicide a few years ago. Many other family members have their own struggles. Sometimes when we speak of these things people gasp and don’t know what to say, but I don’t think it serves anyone to pretend that what happened didn’t happen. If anything, I think more sharing can help the public understand mental health issues better, and getting things above boards can only help…at least I think so. I don’t go around squawking about my mental health issues all the time or anything, but if something naturally arises in conversation, I don’t run away from it either. So thank you for your willingness to share your experience.

As my uncle’s family member I can’t help but think “there but for the grace of gawd go I”. It’s part of what motivates me to work to be as honest as possiblity about myself, my abilities, and my place in the universe. Even when it’s hard sometimes, it’s good work, it worthwhile work…and I highly recommend it

This is my first read, and it neatly summarizes my feelings. Several times a day I will snap out of whatever catatonia-inducing pastime I have contrived to hide within and think “this is a nightmare, I’m living in a total nightmare”. My only answer to this is to find some other shallow pool of comfort to slosh about in, and put off surfacing as long as possible.

It’s as if my personality changes several times a day. I feel cheerful and optimistic about all the crap I have allowed to pile up, reasoning that I will be able to get on top of it all in a matter of days and then things will really start looking up. Moments later I feel crushed and terrified at the impossibility of the simplest task.

To Dan & everyone else who has commented so far,

The response to this post has taken me by surprise. Whereas I expected attacks from the happy-happy crowd (and, perhaps, those attacks are yet to come), instead it has been a stream of extraordinarily insightful and profound and, at times, touching comments. I can’t thank you enough for what you have written and shared with the other readers.

To Dan,
you captured so many of the dimensions of A.D.D. in your two short paragraphs that, well, a whole blog can be written that just unpacks all of its meaning. It just so happens you found that blog. (hehehe) For starters you may want to read this post about multiple “selves” – http://jeffsaddmind.com/how-long-will-me-last-56.htm and then this post about lost time and the mental fog – http://jeffsaddmind.com/lost-time-and-the-fog-45.htm

Jeff,

A very accurate description of A.D.D.’ers living a maddening Sisyphean life…But un-like Sisyphus, we are being punished, yet we have commited no crimes, other than being born.(and miss-spelliing lol)

So, we must find a way to stop this boulder, for as long as we can. The promblem is, it is impossible to wedge anything strong enough to secure it for the length of time it takes to crawl over, and let it roll away.

Whether I use self-dillution, medication,,etc.. The boulder will eventualy flatten the wedge and roll again. So for now, medication has worked the best for me to temporarilty slow the boulder down.

Scott.

Oh Dan,

“My only answer to this is to find some other shallow pool of comfort to slosh about in, and put off surfacing as long as possible.” Oh…I totally FEEL this line of your post. Thank you…great stuff.

Scott…don’t want to veer this awesome thread off topic, but if you don’t mind sharing what meds you take I just find it interesting to hear about other people’s experiences because I’m going through the process of seeing if they’re going to work for me. DO NOT feel pressured to share about that if you don’t want to, but if you are, send me an email at 18channels@gmail.com – thanks!

K

Katy, I never feel pressured, and I will be more than happy to discuss this with you. But for now, here’s a comment on another subject. http://jeffsaddmind.com/adult-add-sex-208.htm#comment-11963 That tells about my meds.

Thanks for the responses, Jeff and Katy B. This is my first experience communicating with other ADD folk, and although it’s just a line or two in a blog comment, it has really lifted me. I don’t have it together to keep a blog (beyond a week or two), and the ADD Forums seem a little sterile to me. I have been looking for a blog or chat room or other place to talk, but I have found nothing but here and a guy called Chris’ blog (http://adhdte.blogspot.com/). Visit Chris, he could use the encouragement. Also please suggest any other outlets for venting, sharing and trying to find the funny side, that you know of.

Love Dan.

Jeff,

Adult Delusional Disorder. I can honestly say, Adult Delusion,(this may seem a contradiction to my last comment,but I did’nt explain myself enough) is for me, a tool I use, along with meds, to slow this maddness that is trying to destroy my life.

It is an adjustable tool that I use to calibrate specific moments of reality. >>”You missed that exit Scott”….”No I just wanted you to see this nice house, that is at the next exit, and realy it may be a better way to get where we are going.” I can convince myself,that I am doing the right thing. And forget about it for a while.

Scott.

Scott

Scott,

Not a contradiction at all…in fact…understandable. That was the point I tried to make in the post Science versus The Self (http://jeffsaddmind.com/science-versus-the-add-self-481.htm), essentially that we still have to live the day-to-day…somehow…and we may need to delude ourselves (albeit temporarily) in order to survive.

Jeff,

Thats what makes this post so great! The subjects(and point’s you are trying to make) in many of your posts can be seen in this one.

I use the “You must simply laugh at..to avoid crying.” every day. Honestly, I think, if I did’nt have that, I don’t know how I could/would have faced reality. I’m not saying it’s easy to do, but I am “LIVING” proof, of that fact of “LIFE”.

Scott.

Katy,

Re >>For me though, it’s more like this…one day, the pearl is right there in my hands, and I’m so excited I run around with it and build altars to it and dedicate poems to it, and think of all the great things I’m gonna do with it and then the next day I wake up and if I even remember I go “oh shit…where’d I put that damn thing, I think I left it around here somewhere…crap…”…rinse, repeat, lol…<<

LOL!!! I know exactly what you mean! Famous last words: “I know it’s around here somewhere…” I like the way you expressed that too–it sounds almost like something I’d write, in a different mood or at another time.

HOPEFULLY at another time anyway! I have an unfortunate tendency to try to say it all at once–and how many different ways can you say basically the same thing in one post anyway? Out the six or more different metaphors that must have been kicking around in my head when I wrote that post (although I don’t actually remember), I managed to narrow it down to just two: The Gordian knot/tangled yarn metaphor and the pearl-imprisoned-in-the-oyster image.

I think I was doing pretty good to keep it down to just two and not try to develop all six or more at the same time. As a matter of fact, I’m very proud of myself for that–I was just a model of succinctness there! And besides, I left one metaphor for you to develop. I’m glad to see you had so much fun with it, as you obviously did. That makes it even better.

Yup, sometimes we really do have to laugh at ourselves to keep from crying–or to keep from killing ourselves. But I’m going to continue that one in another post.

Blessings,
Linda aka Raksha

HAHA…glad to be of service Raksha, thanks for the launchpad.

Honestly, sometimes, I mean I am an artist after all, I really let myself enjoy that “building altars to it” part for creative purposes. Those are the moments I try to write down for later consideration, for later use…just in case they’re as brilliant as they seem at the time

Dan,

Re >>Several times a day I will snap out of whatever catatonia-inducing pastime I have contrived to hide within and think “this is a nightmare, I’m living in a total nightmare”.<<

If you’re anything like me, it’s most likely a hyperfocus-induced pastime you’re using for escape. That damned hyperfocus is the best example there could possibly be of how the gift and the curse of ADD are intertwined. It’s the biggest two-edged sword of all.

On the one hand, it enables me to do the most incredibly detailed needlework (both execution and design), and to write pages of prose without ever using the spell-checker or making an error. Of course I still have to proofread the stuff, but I’m an excellent proofreader too. I proofed and edited my cousin’s Ph.D. dissertation, even though I’m a college dropout with about 45 credits to my name.

But then there’s the flip side: At the VERY SAME TIME it’s enabling me to do my best work, that damned hyperfocus is my favorite means of escape from the chaos all around me; i.e. the piles of dirty laundry, the stacks of dirty dishes and piles of old bills and junk mail, etc. etc. ad nauseum. I develop a kind of tunnel vision where I can pretend I don’t see all that chaos, and I can even pretend I don’t feel it eating away at my self-esteem every minute like some corrosive acid.

And then, just like you said, a few times a day I’ll come up for air and it’s all STILL there waiting for me…and reproaching me. Drives me BONKERS!!!

–Linda

What a relief to read this post, and a relief to know someone understands this about me. The madness of it all has been wearing me down lately. I used to be so hopeful that I would overcome it all, but now I know that just isn’t going to happen … ever! It is a blessing and a curse.

I can’t believe I just wrote “a blessing and a curse.” on my comment! Clearly I am still suffering from Adult Delusional Disorder. Yikes!

Mrs.Jones,

Don’t feel like the lone ranger when you say:”I can’t believe I just wrote….”

I am the “King of Contradiction” in many of my comments, on the same post’s here. I am a self analyzer, about everything I think about. Or maybe I’m not. Maybe I’m…..? I’ll have to submit this comment and analyze it before I write anything more about this.(Chuckle)

Scott.

Scott and Mrs. Jones,

Re >>I am the “King of Contradiction” in many of my comments, on the same post’s here. I am a self analyzer, about everything I think about. Or maybe I’m not. Maybe I’m…..? I’ll have to submit this comment and analyze it before I write anything more about this.<<

We are all self-anslyzers here, and we all contradict ourselves from one post to the next, or in different parts of the same post. That’s because ADD people deeply understand paradox, whether they can verbalize that understanding or not. You must be familiar with the saying: “The opposite of a little truth is a lie, but the opposite of a great truth is often another great truth.”

So which old saw is operative on this thread? Is it “Misery loves company” or “Birds of a feather flock together”?

Or does that ALSO depend on which side of the bed we happened to wake up on this morning, or the current phase of the moon…or something?

–Linda

Scott and Linda,

So I’m not the only one who contradicts and over-analyzes! Do you ever come home from a party or social event and worry about what you said to someone and how they might have misunderstood it, or it could have hurt their feelings, and so on? When I call them to clarify, they usually think I’m crazy. I do enjoy analyzing other people though. That’s fun.

Since I have only recently discovered that adhd is at the root of my dysfunction, I’m still feeling like the Lone Ranger a bit. It’s nice to meet people who don’t even need an explanation to understand me. Most of my friends and family don’t quite get my explanations and totally blow me off. Very annoying.

Linda, I’m going to have to vote for “Misery Loves Company” this week, since the wheels have come off for me. Actually, I had another good one for you, but I’ve forgotten it already.

~Heather

The maddness I see in myself, comes back and trys to consume me…it’s hard to explain. Kinda like I’m an “Ouroborus”(consuming myself)in a way. I’ll get over that thought, I think.

Heres a form of maddness. I woke up about 3 A.M. this morning and could’nt go back to sleep, because I was trying to think of> How many oxymorons I could come up with. Now that’s maddness!

On the bright side though, I did make myself laugh at some of stories I could tell, that were full of oxymorons.

Scott,

I forgot what an oxymoron is! For some unknown reason I am totally drawing a blank on it.

I woke up at 2:30 this morning and couldn’t get back to sleep either…but for a whole different set of reasons.

–Linda

Linda,

Mentaly drawing a blank, is an “understandable dilema” that I also deal with. I have “long moments” of frustration, when that happens.

I use the word “oxymoron” to explain some of the funny(to me anyway)ways I contradict myself when talking to someone. You, in your comment: “Thats because ADD people deeply understand parodox, whether can verbalize that understanding on not.”… May have been stuck in my mind, yesterday morning….who knows?

So, in my opinion, the word “oxymoron” is used to describe many things, depending on the subject of conversation. In other words, by definition, I most likely don’t use it correctly.

I hope the reason for being awake at 2:30 A.M. was’nt a bad thing.

About this blog post: Jeff, I don’t see how you do this. Every post out of the box is so interesting (and I am jaded enough that it is the exception and not the rule to become interested in something someone has written about AD/HD), so thoughtful and, well, layered. (I was going to say “deep,” but that was both imprecise and bland – both of which I dislike.)

It would be too facile to say you are “original,” though you are. It comes down to, it seems, your own lens put on the same things we have seen, read and experienced for lo, these many years, that places them in high relief and so available for consideration, anew.

“Madness” is a term most people will balk at, because it makes it seem to be crazy. But I can tell you (what you already know), it is crazy to be ready to do something and find you are unable because there is no longer time enough, though you began preparing for it seven hours ago. NOW, there is no more time. I have, uncountable times, been reduced to tears by the betrayals rendered by my own brain.

So many times, giving voice to my frustration and disappointment, I have elicited from other people comments about how hard I am on myself, always followed by admonitions to ease up, get off my own case, etc. This infuriates me, because, 1.) expressing disappointment does not constitute being hard on myself (how dumb are they?), and b.) admonitions like that do constitute being hard on me.

Mostly I like people — well, no; in principle I believe people are likable, but in practice, I am fully capable of hate. It is my responsibility to get out of their way when they refuse to get out of mine.

Betsy! Hello!,

You said:”It is my responsibility to get out their way when they refuse to get out of mine.”…..Some ADD’ers (Howie Mandrell..spelling?) may think it could be stimulating(funny), while stepping out the way, leave a banana peel behind.

But seriously, you make a good point about this subject, and I see myself in some ways, the same.

Scott.

Scott, Betsy et al.,

Re >>You said:”It is my responsibility to get out their way when they refuse to get out of mine.”…..Some ADD’ers (Howie Mandrell..spelling?) may think it could be stimulating(funny), while stepping out the way, leave a banana peel behind.<<

I’m rapidly discovering that some ADD’ers eventually “go bad” if they have been undiagnosed and untreated for long enough. I wish I had a more precise way of describing it but I don’t. What I mean by “going bad” is that they become extremely set in their dysfunctions, very stubborn and defensive about them, and very devious and manipulative in their relationships.

I’m thinking about one person in particular as “Exhibit A.” She’s my friend(?) or maybe former friend is more accurate. She’s a compulsive pack rat, for one thing. I mean even worse than usual, the kind of mega-slob you read about it the paper sometimes. In fact, she WAS in her local paper a number of years ago when the 30-year-old death trap she was living in was finally revealed to the light of day. She got on the local TV news too.

This woman projects all of her own faults onto me incessantly and compulsively, and I finally couldn’t take it any more. This is not to say I don’t have similar faults, but not to the same degree she does–not even close! And yet she still refuses to admit she’s ADHD, even though she was hyperactive as a child. Because ya see…that would MAKE ME RIGHT, and that’s something she can’t handle. She absolutely HAS to be right at all costs!

What I’m talking about is exactly the kind of person who would step out of your way while leaving a banana peel behind.

–Linda

Linda,

I’m not sure if you think I was trying to say Howie is not aware of his A.D.D, or not. I respect the man very much, and I watched an interview on t.v., where Howie explained how A.D.D has affected his life.

He told stories about his practical jokes, and the trouble’s he had in school…etc. As an adult, his A.D.D. memory/attn. symptoms, hurt his family, and put his children in danger(a very scary story).

He now understands the reality and the facts of life>A.D.D. is a terrible mental illness, and treats it as such.

I may have miss-understood your comment, that began with my Howie/banana peel comment, leading to your former friends behaviour. I have a bit of, what my Dr.s call “Receptive Aphasia”, that I assumed was verbal. Maybe it’s also written “R..A”. If so, my apologies go out all here.

Scott,

Re >>I may have miss-understood your comment, that began with my Howie/banana peel comment, leading to your former friends behaviour. I have a bit of, what my Dr.s call “Receptive Aphasia”, that I assumed was verbal. Maybe it’s also written “R..A”. If so, my apologies go out all here.<<

There’s no reason for you to apologize. My story about my former friend had nothing to do with Howie Mandel or with what you said about him. It was merely my own personal, idiosyncratic response to the banana peel analogy analogy itself. All I did was use your remark as a lauching pad (thanks, Katy!) for my own trip, because it’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately.

I looked up Howie Mandel in Wikipedia right before I started typing this. Before that, I knew very little about him beyond the fact that he’s a Jewish commedian. But that’s enough in itself. Knowing that he’s a Jewish commedian, I simply assumed he has ADD so it didn’t surprise me that he talked about it in an interview.

I mean…isn’t that one of the prequisites for the job? Is there such a thing as a Jewish commedian who DOESN’T have ADD? If so, I’ve never heard of him or her. That could very well be true for commedians of other ethnicities, but I am most familiar with the Borscht Belt types because I’m also Jewish. I grew up with a lot of amateur Jewish commedians, as well as flaming neurotics and “characters” of every description. My own family is lousy with them.

I’m well aware that making this linkage leads straight into a very politically incorrect minefield, but dammit…sooner or later SOMEBODY has to say it! So it might as well be somebody like me with chutzpah built in. I’m referring to the fact that while ADD can occur in any ethnic group, it is far more prevalent in certain ones than in others, with mine being at the very top of the list.

That particular can of worms would probably be better opened on another thread, though.

–Linda

Scott,

An afterthought about Howie Mandel:

Re >>He now understands the reality and the facts of life>A.D.D. is a terrible mental illness, and treats it as such.<<

Maybe so, but it would be impossible for him to be so incredibly good at what he does without it. I’ll even go further than that: Without being ADD, he could not do what he does AT ALL! It’s the old double-edged sword again.

–Linda

Linda,

Thank you for your opinion on my opinion. Thats why I comment so much here. Life is much more interesting(to me),when I am able to “see” what other people think.

I learned something about myself, while reading your comment. I am not very smart. I was too blind to see the connection between a persons religious beliefs and A.D.D. Matter fact I did’nt even know Howie was Jewish.

I might not have A.D.D.. I think I may have up to 4 or 5 ancesters, that were not Jewish. I can’t proove it though, so I may have A.D.D. I’ll ask my brother when I see him. If I can remember his name, that is.

Scott,

You must have at least a few Jewish ancestors because you sound just like all those Jewish comedians I was telling you I grew up with. So please remember to ask your brother about it when you see him…if you can remember his name, of course. Or even if you can’t.

Everyone,

My apologies for spelling “comedian” consistently wrong throughout my reply #34. It should be with only one M the way I’m spelling it here, not with two M’s the way I spelled it in the earlier post.

Unfortunately, I didn’t notice the error until after my note was already posted. This board doesn’t have an editing feature either, or if it does I can’t find it. That’s pretty embarrassing when I’ve been bragging to everyone about how great my grammar and spelling are. Not when I’m short on sleep, I guess.

–Linda

Linda,

My friends used to call me a “Comode-ian” for laughs, when I would make wise-cracks(a little too often). I could usealy think up a sarcastic thing to say about most subjects.

It’s a protective device I use to avoid the serious side of things…sometimes at the wrong times. It’s not a gift…to me. But I do feel stimulated, when I think someone is maybe tickled by my weird way thinking.

Scott.

Can you verify the connection you assert between Jewish + comedian + ADD?

I grew up back east and while my mother was not Jewish, my father’s mother’s father (and I know, technically that makes me a not-Jew, which reminds me of a “game” I made up for my [Jewish] mother in law, called “Jew, Not A Jew,” in which when many were assembled at our table, we went around the table once, for her, and pointing to each person, identified them all, as, “Ma. Look. Jew. Jew. Not A Jew. Jew. Not A Jew. Not A Jew. Jew…” according to whatever they were or were not [which interested her a great deal, which interest, in fact, led her to have dubbed me, once what I called later an “honorary Jew,” because, I suppose, she liked me well enough she couldn’t quite feature me not actually being Jewish and maybe I just didn’t know it or something], and then we tested her on it) was a Jew from Germany and due to my father’s having grown up in Manhattan in the twenties and thirties, he might well have been a Jew or an Italian, for that matter, so ethnically at ease was he.

My point was, if I remember it right, that I know all about the Catskills and such, and of course the Marx Brothers must have surely been of the AD/HD type, and if you haven’t read “Harpo Speaks,” go find it soon, and while I know the ranks of comedy are rife with Jews, I would not have pegged most of them for AD/HD.

Whatsyersource?

Betsy,

I think Linda’s source (hope she doesn’t mind me speaking on her behalf) would be observational data. Sure, the “n” of cases may not be that large, but, still, while there may not be a causal link it may seem that Jewish/A.D.D./Comedian may be comorbid conditions. (This is not meant to be a slight at the non-Jewish comedians.) However, there can be another explanation for the Jewish Comedian that does not have anything to do with A.D.D.

Leo Rosten ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Rosten ) had commented in his book “Hooray for Yiddish” (examines the influence of Yiddish on the English language) pointed out that Jews, having been kept out of power in different countries for so long (though that is no longer the case), turned to language as a means of defending themselves. They became, to some degree, linguistic pugilists. (Perhaps reinforcing this is the long tradition of Talmudic commentary where interpretation is reinterpreted again and again.) Of course, we should not stereotype. Being Jewish doesn’t mean you are funny and doesn’t mean you have A.D.D. But, hey, it could seem like there’s some sort of link. Afterall, the founder of the Jewish faith, Abraham, may seem like he had A.D.D. As Shalom Auslander put it (see: http://www.tabletmag.com/arts-and-culture/books/959/civilization-and-its-discontented/), Abraham just one day stood up in his tent and said something like, “F**K THIS! I’m outta here!” and thereby changed his life in a single instant. Sure sounds like A.D.D. to me.

Ole Abraham, sure had alot of stress. He had to deal w/his wife Sarah, his concubine Hagar, the Big Boss(God), along w/a long list of other stuff.

Just the first three things, would have most likely got me standing up in the tent. But I probably would have had to go back several times, to get a bunch of things I forgot to pack…tooth-brush,pocket knife,a goat to set on fire…etc.

Betsy,

So your Jewish mother-in-law designated you an honorary Jew? Are you ADD/ADHD yourself? I suspect you are, since you just wrote one of the LONGEST run-on sentences I’ve ever seen in my life! I’m referring to your second paragraph, which is all one long sentence without a single period, not counting the periods in the “Jew. Not a Jew.” part. Apparently you didn’t realize you were doing it either.

The spoken equivalent is when someone monopolizes a conversation without allowing anyone else to get a word in edgewise, and this is a very common ADD trait. Again, it is usually totally unconscious and happens because the person is carried away with enthusiasm for what he/she is saying.

Often people with this “motor mouth” tendency are accused of being excessively self-involved or self-centered, of not being good listeners, or even of not caring about other people. But the truth is that very often they have tremendous empathy. They just get carried away with enthusiam for their subject and forget that other people might ALSO want to say something!

So if you are ADD/ADHD yourself, that goes a long way towards explaining why your Jewish mother-in-law made you an honorary Jew. She is probably ADD also or at the very least, has a lot of relatives who are.

As Jeff already said, my main source is observation, and also what I have to call instinct or better yet informed intuition. I have discovered that it’s a more accurate guide in this area than any expert opinion or formal diagnosis.

–Linda

Jeff,

Re >>Abraham just one day stood up in his tent and said something like, “F**K THIS! I’m outta here!” and thereby changed his life in a single instant. Sure sounds like A.D.D. to me.<<

There have been plenty of Jews since Abraham who have said “F**K THIS! I’m outta here!” Knowing when to say it and most important, ACT on it is very much a survival trait for the Jews, so please DO NOT underestimate this tendency.

My all-time favorite of the amateur Jewish comedians I mentioned earlier would most likely never have existed if his father had not said “F**K THIS! I’m outta here!” five months after Kristallnacht. And my life might have been a bit less tumultuous (although I doubt it), but definitely less interesting and meaningful. There’s nothing like two card-carrying members of the Coyote Club striking sparks off each other for instant drama and ongoing drama too–but that’s another story.

Oh yes, he’s also ADHD, just like his father. That almost goes without saying. As I already said it’s very much a survival trait, and more so for the Jews than for any other people.

–Linda

Scott,

Re >>Just the first three things, would have most likely got me standing up in the tent. But I probably would have had to go back several times, to get a bunch of things I forgot to pack…tooth-brush,pocket knife,a goat to set on fire…etc.<<

Whatever you do, DON’T forget the ram for the burnt offering! That was a major oversight on Abraham’s part, although I have it on good authority it wasn’t actually an oversight. Fortunately, he got bailed out of that one, when he told Isaac God would provide the ram for the burnt offering.

But I’ve been on this board too long today already, so I don’t think I want to go there now. That’s a real can of worms, and most of the time I don’t want to go there at all. When arguing with Christian fundamentalists (which I do more often than I admit), it can get downright hopeless.

–Linda

Oh Linda,
You think I didn’t realize I was writing that sentence? Good God, I made sure it was – barring errors – syntactically correct so that a person could actually follow it from start to finish without undue confusion. That is not a run on sentence, I will have you know.

My dedication to clarity when handling multiple ideas and threads (AD/HD related, possibly) has nothing to do with AD/HD and everything to do with an inborn appreciation of — and affinity for – language. Having (as my mother used to say) “a facile tongue (which she said whenever any of her children did well in a foreign language, not in debate club)” was a value in my family, which it should not have been, since most of us happened to have been gifted with words; I don’t think credit accrues to anyone with inborn wonders like intelligence or beauty or a way with words. In my book, credit accrues under the condition of effort expended.

As for my mother in law, it went more like this. She’d been on a plane all day to come out to see us; sharing her row were two little girls — “shiksas,” she said, sotto voce, to which I responded, “Ma, I’M a shiksa” which she kind of waved away as either inconsequential or just improbable, and continued her story.

Have you read Harpo Marx’s book? It is a scream, and it is profoundly touching, both.

Linda,

Please don’t take my comments as an argument. I see by your comment, that you have also read the same book I did. I admire anyone who can have faith in any religion. I wish I could believe.

I cannot blaim A.D.D. for my lack of believing things,that I cannot prove to myself. So I will not argue about what I cannot prove. I do love to read about all religions, and I find logic in some parts of every book explaining why and how these religions became popular. And I am not un-educated, nor do I claim to an expert on the subject of anything, other than the tricks of the trade of construction(carpentry,eletrical wiring..etc).

If I were an expert on the subject of A.D.D., and human behaviour…I would’nt be here at “JEFF’S A.D.D. MIND” learning how others feel about his posts. I personaly find much “Food for thought” in all posts and comments here. Particualy this post, and your thoughts Linda. If I agree with you or not, is irrelevent…to me. You say what you believe, and that’s honesty. I admire that.

Scott.

Scott,

Re >>Please don’t take my comments as an argument. I see by your comment, that you have also read the same book I did. I admire anyone who can have faith in any religion. I wish I could believe.<<

WHAAAAAT???? I can’t imagine what I could have said that gave you the idea I am a “believer” in ANY kind of conventional sense! I promise you I am NOT a “believer.” I consider it beneath my dignity as a free human being to believe ANYTHING just because someone who was supposed to be an “authority” told me so at some impressionable age, when I was too young to know any better or think for myself.

That said, though, I have never considered myself an atheist either. I am a pantheist, meaning that I believe the words “God” and “Universe” mean the same thing, and both deserve to be capitalized. I have never found a better definition of “God” than Dylan Thomas’ wonderful phrase, “the force that through the green fuse drives the flower.” In the Star Wars movies George Lucas shortens it to “The Force.” The Hindus call it Shakti, which is so close to the Hebrew word Shekhinah (Divine Presence) I think they derive come from the same root.

Both words are in the feminine gender, BTW–Shakti and Shekhinah. Which reminds me I should really finish reading “The Hebrew Goddess” by Raoul Patai, so I can finally set everyone straight as to what I believe, and show there actually *IS* a precedent for it.

It’s true that Judaism is my birth religion. If you think about it, though, you’ll understand that in an ADD context there is NO WAY I could be talking about the Jewish religion when I I talk about Jewish ethnicity or Jewish peoplehood.

Somebody said upthread that Abraham was “the first Jew.” I knew better, but since this doesn’t seem like the place to split theological hairs like I do on the religion boards, it seemed best to keep quiet about it. Abraham and Sarah were most likely ordinary garden-variety Semitic PAGANS, just like everybody else of that time and place.

Just because a bunch of revisionists got hold of the texts early on and tried to make out like Abraham and Sarah were “ethical monotheists” or some other damn anachronistic thing like that doesn’t make it true. Even Abraham’s name isn’t so much a name as a title: Av-raham. I forget whether it means “father of a great people” or “father of many people.” I think it probably means “father of many people” since he is considered the forefather of both the Israelites and the Arabs, through Sarah and Hagar.

The important thing is that he is considered our forefather in the PHYSICAL sense, and we have no reason to believe otherwise and no alternate tradition that says otherwise.

AGGGHHHH!!! I see I’ve done it AGAIN! I just wrote yet another long note after I promised myself I wouldn’t. So AGAIN I acted like a misunderstanding is some kind of bleeping emergency that just HAS to get straightened out immediately! Or what? Or the world will come to a screeching halt if you misunderstand me for another 24 hours?

I’ve been trying to break myself of that unfortunate habit, but you can see how well I succeeded. I hate myself for stuff like this sometimes.

–Linda

Linda,

I am sorry if you thought my comment was a judgement of your beliefs about anything. I try to be carefull and not make anyone think I judge them pesonaly.

If anyone here deserved to be judged about his/her thoughts, it would me. I am the best example of a man who thinks he knows what life is about…but changes his way of thinking, in an attempt to please others.

It is a form of madness that only causes harm to people I care about. You are one those people Linda. And I apologize for my way of thinking.

Scott.

Betsy,
Re >>Oh Linda,
You think I didn’t realize I was writing that sentence? Good God, I made sure it was – barring errors – syntactically correct so that a person could actually follow it from start to finish without undue confusion. That is not a run on sentence, I will have you know.<<

You’re right, and I apologize for accusing you of writing a run-on sentence when you didn’t.

I just read that sentence over very carefully and as far as I can tell it’s not a run-on sentence–just an extremely long and convoluted one! As a matter of fact, it sounds like something I would write, and often DO write!

But then I read it over and decide it’s so hopelessly long and convoluted (I like doing Celtic interlacing with words) that whoever is unfortunate enough to read it is going to get totally confused, and maybe impatient and irritated with me for making them read all that complicated, seemingly pointless drivel. So I change a few words and throw in a few periods to break the long sentence up into several shorter sentences, and hope that clarifies things. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t.

It’s all part of the ongoing challenge of trying to express circular thought in linear form–and I know you know what I’m talking about here! It is so difficult that sometimes I wonder why I keep beating my head against the SAME brick wall over and over again, and yet I can’t seem to stop doing it.

I should really go back to writing poetry again, and I would if I could find my way back to that place. But it’s been so long and the path is so overgrown with weeds, I doubt that I could find it again. The great thing about poetry is that it’s a kind of shorthand. You can pack multiple layers of meaning into a few words…IF you succeed, of course. That’s a very big *IF* there!

–Linda

Oh hell, you didn’t insult me. I just wanted to make sure you knew I knew what I was doing, more or less. Thanks for replying.

I find writing is the one thing that consistently helps me to organize my thinking. The structure it imposes is helpful and when I take license, there are still limits.

In “The Edison Gene”, Thom Hartman reports an encounter when traveling in India with several businessmen and a physician.

“Curious about how they viewed our children diagnosed as having ADHD, I asked, “Are you familiar with those types of people…” “Ah, we know these types well”, one of the men said, the other three nodding in agreement. “What do you call this personality type?”, I asked. “Very holy”, he said. “These are old souls, near the end of their karmic cycle…” “This is a man very close to being enlightened.” “We have great respect for such individuals, although their lives may be difficult…” “In America they consider this behavior indicative of a psychiatric disorder,”I said. All three looked startled, then laughed… “So it is with different cultures. We live in different worlds.”

Like the subtitle to “The Power of Intention” states, “Change the way you look at things and the things you look at will change.”

Deb,

I’ve heard of Thom Hartman. A very bright guy. Highly educated. The rare A.D.D. true success story. The statistical outlier. But in true American fashion, he is blind to everything that lies outside himself (I’m sure he claims otherwise) and assumes that if he can do it (or Edison can do it), well, by golly, so can you. Nonsense and poppycock. Whether we are talking about A.D.D. or about people who are struggling to get out of poverty, it is the rare individual who succeeds in doing it and, what we often fail to remember, is that that person’s success rests upon the help of many others. No individual succeeds on their own.

As for karmic cycles and enlightenment, well, that’s a nice view of the world. But Hartman should know better than to share it as if it carries some scientific weight.

Don’t get me started.

Betsy,

Go for it!

I’ll bring the pop-corn, and sit over here.:)

If I get up…Please remember to bring a raincoat, I might bring my giant wooden mallet and a watermelon.

Jeff,

I truly did not mean to be trite with this comment. I think it unfair to say TH is blind to everything outside of himself. On the contrary, I think he reaches as far (and, admittedly, sometimes I think stretches a bit too far) in his search for understanding. I think he is intimately aware of the nitty gritty because he he has lived ADD and watched his son struggle with ADD.Even an ivory tower genius comes down to help his own.

I agree that whether we are talking about any kind of difficulty in life, ADD or not, no one does it alone, ever. We should also remember that no one gets out of life unscathed. We are all a work in progress.

I don’t have enough time to debate reincarnation here, but I think it useful if we at least briefly look at what success really is in terms of learning and enlightenment for us ordinary folk. To say that we are mad, or screwed because we are not statistical outliers is a bit of a stretch, too. People are diverse, even those of us that share many of those common negative, or positive traits of ADD. As The President is a role model for people of color that are stuck in poverty (we are not going to pretend things are going to significantly change for each of them anytime soon), we can hold up a symbol of hope that just may inspire someone to be positive and try to think of something better than just to give in to the apparent hopeless reality of their situation. Maybe it will help them to stay off drugs, or not drop out. If you are inspired by a great doctor, you may never become one, but you may find your place in life working in a doctor’s office. Is this not success for that person? Even if its many different offices over time, you may eventually find a job in the field that fits.

I choose not to look at myself as broken, but different. I do not need to be fixed. I am as crazy as they come, but do not tell me that you are more sane than I. My dad’s favorite retort, “So what, a lot better people than you have called me a lot worse!”

As far as the science goes, the pure and applied sciences are in some ways still in infant stages when it comes to the brain. This is a very exciting time for those of us who watch closely.

We are still in the early light of disseminating useful information to adults about ADD. What the science tells us and how we interpret that information I feel is important to people’s happiness. I think it folly to tell people who already don’t fit well in the world that they are screwed. Especially younger people who are just beginning to rack up the wounds. If you can reframe their thinking and educate them as early as you can in a more positive “light”, they will be happier. The power of positive thinking is not a Pollyanna outlook that is looking for a gift under the tree, but rather a suggestion of the possibility of an amount of success in life, even for me.

People need to learn to deal. I admire those that are in the trenches helping people to identify those old hurts and find a better way.The scars that are left on people after a lifetime of not fitting in should not define us. There is no fool like an old fool. O.K. that was trite.

Scott,

Don’t sit too far away, I’m expecting you to share the popcorn. And maybe some pulled pork-if it smells good today!

The conversation shouldn’t get THAT heated. Maybe a mallet is safer than a knife, though.

Deb,

Your points are well taken and, quite honestly, the difference is one of emphasis. (I’ll have a post on this in a day or so.) TH is not really an idiot and, yes, success can be measured in many different ways. And while I don’t quite look at myself as being broken per se, I recently described myself to someone as being, well, someone who has all the physiological qualities needed to run 100 miles per hour except, unfortunately, I have clubbed feet. My daily struggle is how to get up to speed despite the clubbed feet.

You DO run 100 MPH Jeff, just not in a straight line

Deb,

Re >>“Curious about how they viewed our children diagnosed as having ADHD, I asked, “Are you familiar with those types of people…” “Ah, we know these types well”, one of the men said, the other three nodding in agreement. “What do you call this personality type?”, I asked. “Very holy”, he said. “These are old souls, near the end of their karmic cycle…” “This is a man very close to being enlightened.” “We have great respect for such individuals, although their lives may be difficult…” “In America they consider this behavior indicative of a psychiatric disorder,”I said. All three looked startled, then laughed… “So it is with different cultures. We live in different worlds.”<<

Ahhhhh…beautiful, beautiful, BEAUTIFUL!!! You have *NO* idea how pathetically grateful I am to you for quoting this, and for being familiar with Thom Hartmann’s work in general. I haven’t read “The Edison Gene” but I’ve read two of his previous books: “Attention Deficit Disorder: A Different Perception” and “Healing ADD,” which contains specific exercises for dealing with specific perception and attention problems, and which I desperately need to re-read…like RIGHT NOW!!!

But the first book, “A Different Perception,” is the one where he first sets forth his “Hunter in a Farmer’s World” theory. I believe this is the correct model and the one that will eventually prevail. It started out as a metaphor, after his son was diagnosed with ADD. Thom Hartmann was dissatisfied with the prevailing “disease” models and didn’t want to burden his son with the negative self-image and limited expectations inherent in having a “deficit” and a “disorder.” That’s very hard on a child.

For an adult–me for example–it’s a whole other thing. I was 57 years old when that book on adult ADD fell into my hands seemingly “by chance” when I was browsing in a library on Santa Monica Blvd. I still don’t remember which book it was, but I leafed through it for 15-20 minutes and with total awestruck astonishment, RECOGNIZED myself for the first time in my life. Like most adults in the same situation I didn’t give a damn WHAT they called it! I was just so grateful there was ANY name for it at all.

An aside: For that reason I won’t give the time of day to ANYONE who cautions me about the alleged “dangers” of self-diagnosis, and I don’t give a damn whether it’s Dr. Hallowell or any other expert. While I admire Dr. Hallowell tremendously for his breakthrough work, the ONLY thing I give his dated and irrelevant cautions about self-diagnosis is my upraised middle finger. If I were not self-diagnosed, I would still be UNDIAGNOSED because I don’t have effing health insurance, and I didn’t have it then either.

WOW…this digression seems to have evolved (or devolved?) into a full-blown rant! Maybe I’d better stop and cool off for a while.

–Linda

Jeff,

Re >>I’ve heard of Thom Hartman. A very bright guy. Highly educated. The rare A.D.D. true success story. The statistical outlier. But in true American fashion, he is blind to everything that lies outside himself (I’m sure he claims otherwise) and assumes that if he can do it (or Edison can do it), well, by golly, so can you.<<

No, that isn’t Thom Hartmann’s message AT ALL! If all he were saying is, “By golly, if I can do it so can you” nobody would buy his books, because all of us have heard that message already a thousand times in our lives and it hasn’t done us the slightest bit of good. Very often people whose message is “By golly, if I can do it so can you” only seem to be taunting us, but that isn’t what Thom Hartmann is doing.

His theory and his message are ALL about self-knowledge, as in “the truth will set you free.” Do yourself a big favor and read one of them. I promise you that you won’t be sorry.

Love and Light,
Linda

I have walked a mile in those moccasins.

Thanks for letting me go on.

Deb,

Re >>As far as the science goes, the pure and applied sciences are in some ways still in infant stages when it comes to the brain. This is a very exciting time for those of us who watch closely.

We are still in the early light of disseminating useful information to adults about ADD. What the science tells us and how we interpret that information I feel is important to people’s happiness. I think it folly to tell people who already don’t fit well in the world that they are screwed. Especially younger people who are just beginning to rack up the wounds. If you can reframe their thinking and educate them as early as you can in a more positive “light”, they will be happier.<<

Not only will they be happier, they are also more likely to be successful without the crushing burden of a negative self-image. There have been times, and not all that long ago either, when I have told people: “I have hated myself my entire life. I have no idea what it would be like to NOT hate myself. I can’t even imagine what that would feel like.”

I posted something like that on a discussion board where I’m a regular several years ago. It was one of those sudden impulses and I’m not really sure why I did it. But another regular read my post and sent me an e-mail, something he had never done before. Although I keep up a regular and intense (and WAY too time-consuming) e-mail correspondence with a number of close friends, this person wasn’t one of them.

He said: “Your description of yourself has all the classic earmarks of attention deficit disorder.” And then he told me about Dr. Hallowell’s book “Driven to Distraction,” which I ordered from Amazon within the week. By then I already knew I was ADD but didn’t have a clue where to go from there or what to do about it. I answered my secret ally’s e-mail and told him he had guessed correctly, although it was hardly a “guess” on his part. I’ve been saying ever since that it takes one to know one. He recognized me by my intense and unwarranted self-hatred, the all-too-common legacy of a lifetime of unrecognized ADD.

Once again I couldn’t agree with you more: “I think it folly to tell people who already don’t fit well in the world that they are screwed.”

I ALREADY knew I was screwed!!! If I didn’t know it from the day I was born, I certainly knew it from the time I was 5-6 years old. What I desperately needed to know was WHY I was screwed, and also how to get un-screwed, assuming that’s remotely possible. But in order to be truly healing and empowering, the approach taken has to be both POSITIVE and TRUE. I believe Thom Hartmann’s Hunter/Farmer model fills the bill on both counts.

Again, I am so glad you’re here, Deb. I appreciate having a not-so-secret ally on this higher plane. Are you Jewish?

Love,
Raksha the She-Wolf,
who never fought harder for her people than when she fought the hardest against them

Wow…damn, I’ve never read Thom Hartmann but way to create some buzz people…I am new to this whole thing of course…so I guess I should get “caught up” on the existing lit

I must admit that my knowledge of Thom Hartmann is superficial. It is based on what I’ve heard him discuss on the radio. Seems like I need to take a closer look at what he has written so…thanks for that kick in the pants.

Why am I so skeptical? It may be because I have a step-brother, who has spent most of his adult life trying to become wealthy, by selling people the “way to become wealthy.” He works for me now, as a helper.

I am not going to try to convince anyone, that the way I went about doing things, is why I have survived and still able to buy food and eat. I went(and still do,I think) “In through the back door” on most things in my life. The most recent being diagnosed A.D.D..

I have been lured and hooked many times. I have even been put on the stringer. But the Fisher-Men don’t see all the holes in my mouth, from the hooks & stringers I spit out. That shows I was a foolish fish many times, but got away.

I live and learn. If I go “In through the back door” at least I know where it is. I know the fisher-men usealy forget to lock it, after I walk in.

Just after I made my last comment, I walk out onto My porch, and started thinking about these books, and authors..etc.

I may buy these books, and be a “Brubaker”, in a way. http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=4068

Just a thought, about how I may be able to help others who may be in the “Prison” of these books.

“Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” Sounds like you are not only a smart man, but a wise one, Scott.

For me, my skepticism is born more out of paranoia. Though it plagued me in my younger days, I’m now grateful for it. The trick has been to be happy in spite of my difficulties. It has taken, as you say, quite a lot of trips out the back door so I don’t have to live in a terribly confrontational way. I’m not afraid, by any means, but going out the front door does take a lot of energy that could be better used getting the food, and sharing it with someone. Even sometimes sharing with the grasshopper that didn’t prepare or with Chicken Little that was too busy fretting. It’s usually a relation.

Several of those trips out the back door have been through flames-and I have thought I was really screwed. On the other side of one of those doors marked “tragedy”, not “success”, that I found a place of crazy exhilarated happiness that defies all explanation. And I didn’t even have to join a church or read about it in a book! It was magically here. I just plain learned to appreciate, period.

I protect that place with all my heart, but would rather share it with anyone willing.

I’ve never met you, Scott, but I think I’ve seen you there.

Thank you!

Deb,

I need to thank you, for unstanding, my way of thinking. It may be a cooincidence, or maybe not, that you mentioned “fire”. I am working on something that I titled “In through the back door”. But in the writing of it, I also said that I first thought about making the title “walking through fire to get the water”. In a subject on medication’s for A.D.D..

I will eventualy finish it, but it takes me alot of time to do it.

Thank You!, Scott.

Deb,

Re >>Several of those trips out the back door have been through flames-and I have thought I was really screwed. On the other side of one of those doors marked “tragedy”, not “success”, that I found a place of crazy exhilarated happiness that defies all explanation. And I didn’t even have to join a church or read about it in a book! It was magically here. I just plain learned to appreciate, period.

I protect that place with all my heart, but would rather share it with anyone willing.<<

As someone who has been in and out the back door a few times herself, and as someone who has also been through the flames and come out the other side, I totally understand where you’re coming from. The way you put it is just beautiful. Thank you for saying it better than I could.

–Linda

I was wrong when I commented about being “Brubaker”. I am doing it again> Judging people too quickly, and assuming that everyone will agree with me. I think I am so smart sometimes, and end up being the one who needs to learn, instead of the teacher.

This may be why I am so frustrated with myself, about the comments I make, that sound so “out of touch” with the subject. I want to take the subject to the next level, and control the meaning of the message. But I don’t learn the meaning of first level, which is the original message.

[...] opponent of the growing idea that ADD/ADHD is somehow a “gift”, in a post entitled, Adult ADD as a Form of Madness, blogger Jeff describes the way an ADDer can seem to live the same, unproductive day over and over: [...]

Well, it’s nice to read an honest account of this thing, and a counter to the ADHD-is-a-gift brigade. Thanks. I have felt this way at many times. That said, I hope you don’t feel this way *all* the time.

Look I know this is trite, but unless you can find some positive way to approach things, then why not just end it right now?

It sucks, but it’s the way you/we are, and so learn to deal with it. Everyone, ‘normals’ included, need a bit of self-delusion to keep going sometimes. It’s a fine balance.

Shit it’s late. I came to your blog via the great huffpost article, and I’m happy to have found some non-bullshit discussion of this. I recently found this great article, from 1987 no less, that contains some of the best subjective descriptions I have read:
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/11/magazine/out-of-a-darkness.html

Thanks again, and keep at it.

E,

I agree that it can’t be (shouldn’t be) all doom-and-gloom. If it was…well…I wouldn’t be plugging away at this blog and many people wouldn’t be leaving comments. Let’s say that many of the posts here are the unvarnished, non-fairy tale version of life with A.D.D.

Hope you come buy again and read some of the slightly more sanguine posts.

I have a question: Has anyone ever analysed the relationship between ADD/ADHD and malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

Sociopathy and psychopathy are extreme forms of narcissism. It is documented that sociopaths (those who lack empathy for anyone besides themselves), have 25% more white matter in the prefrontal cortex than non-sociopaths, and other issues in the

I know all sorts of ADD/ADHD people who have huge hearts for others…and are very other-centered, (as opposed to a sociopath’s utter self-centeredness…and clever sociopaths are so clever that they have surface behaviors that will fool others into thinking that they care about others…but when tested, they always choose themselves first), and so,

I want to be very clear that I know that ADD/ADHD people are NOT narcissists or sociopaths, but I wonder, is the reverse true? Do most malignant narcissists and/or sociopaths also have ADD/ADHD?

Abigail,

I have probably analyzed ever thing analyzable. But from what I’ve learned so far about us ADDers is,,,, all ADDers are different, and some of those mental illness,behaviour,attitude..etc things can show themselves more often or more severe, in some ADDers.

Scott.

Yes, ADD/ADHD is not easily defined in individuals. The variance of symptom strength and ancillary issues makes it almost impossible to pigeon hole the phenomenon.

Thom Hartmann provides a perspective that does not jive with conventional ADD/ADHD theory. What works for him should not be discarded, and what works for you should not be as well.

Sharing info, such as is done on this blog, allows people to formulate their own game plans, whether they are people who have ADD/ADHD or people who deal with those who have ADD/ADHD. Sharing info is much different than promulgating absolutism. I do not believe Hartmann does that, but I could be wrong (have been many times before).

How many times has someone said to me; “You gotta be out of your F***ing mind to think you can do this or that…..” ? Well I thought about this today, while I was doing one of those things. If I could get “Out of my mind”, it would be blessing! But if responded to them with that statement, it may confirm (to them) that I am.

Does this make sense? Or am I “Mad”? Or both?

Sometimes I just want to shout out, “Yes…I am out of mind! Now please…leave me alone!”

[...] of purpose in order to “succeed” in life. We delude ourselves (ADD really means Adult Delusional Disorder) when we assume that our inability to maintain focus is the perfect complement to our fractured, [...]